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Turbina corymbosa - Ololiuqui

Page Contents 1. Turbina corymbosa Names 1.1 Taxonomy 2. Ololiuqui Psychoactivity 2.1 Potency: Relation to Ipomoea species 2.2 Methods of Use 2.3 The experience 2.4 Storing seeds for future use 2.5 Traditional doses vs modern day dose 3. Turbina corymbosa Toxicity 4. Turbina corymbosa Chemistry 5. Turbina corymbosa experiments 5.1 Fresh vs Old Ololiuqui Seed 5.2 Ololiuqui Seed Quality 6. Turbina corymbosa Life cycle & Photos 6.1 Turbina corymbosa seed and germination 6.2 Turbina corymbosa Seedlings 6.3 Turbina corymbosa stall stage 6.4 Turbina corymbosa Stretch phase 6.5 Turbina corymbosa Filling Out 6.6 Turbina corymbosa Budding 6.7 Turbina corymbosa Pre Flower 6.8 Turbina corymbosa Flowering 6.9 Turbina corymbosa Pollinating the Flowers 6.10 Turbina corymbosa Flower Die Back 6.11 Turbina corymbosa Ovary Swelling 6.12 Turbina corymbosa Ovary Turning Brown 6.13 Turbina corymbosa Harvest Time! 7. References 8. Related Pages

1. Turbina corymbosa names: Back to top

Family: Convolvulaceae

Tribe: Ipomoeeae.

Botanical Name: Turbina corymbosa (L.) Raf.

Extensions: N/A

English Name(s): Ololiuqui, Snakeplant, Snakevine

Synonyms: Convolvulus corymbosus L. (basionym); Ipomoea burmannii Choisy; Rivea corymbosa Hallier f.

Related Species:

1.1 Turbina corymbosa Taxonomy: Back to top

2. Psychoactivity: Back to top

Traditionaly the seeds are taken orally for their psychoactive effects. There are many places, mostly various internet websites, saying that the native peoples would eat incredibly small numbers of seeds for desired effects (10-30). It would seem that this is unlikely as with many peoples own bioassays it seems fairly consistent that 70+ seeds are required for given effectiveness.

It is interesting to note what Richard Evans Schultes wrote in: Antiquity of the Use of New World Hallucinogens, 1979. Here is a quote from that article:

2.1 Potency: With relation to Ipomoea species/varieties: Back to top

It is common belief among many "users" that Turbina corymbosa is stronger than Ipomoea species in regards to its psychedelic charm. We too used to subscribe to this belief. It has been mention in scientific studies that this is in fact false (as seen above for example). The old, probably incorrect, theory of 10-40 fresh seeds being potent seems to be a myth passed around as fact. One thing that draws many people to Turbina corymbosa (especially over Ipomoea species and Argyreia nervosa is the lack of nausea associated with the ingestion of the seeds. Experience, as well, seems to be much more mild than other psychoactive morning glory species. Many people will experience far more "intense experiences" (ie hallucinations) with Argyreia nervosa and sometimes higher doses of Ipomoea sp. Why is this? One of our theories (do not quote this as fact, as it is just this, a theory!) is that many folks in "western culture" (who are generally the ones spreading the information around so far and fast) are likely thinking that a smaller dose is needed, and perhaps this is why the effects are much more subtler and things like true hallucinations and sickness are rare with Turbina corymbosa experiments. One could guess that a higher dose of Turbina corymbosa, in line with many of the Ipomoea variety doses may lead to more enhanced experiences, btoh positive and negative. We feel it is a worthwhile venture to figure out if in fact T. corymbosa is in fact just weaker than Ipomoea species and that much of the information (mainly online) is had from low dosages and the full potential and fair trial of Turbina corymbosa has not been, at least publicly, accounted for. This page will be updated with newer information as it comes in with regards to this topic.

A snippet from: Medical Toxicology. By Richard C. Dart

It is also said, same source as above, that ergine is the major alkaloid in these plants and has a potency of about 10% that of LSD. This probably should not be taken as "take more seeds to get more visions".

2.2 Method of use : Back to top

It is not known, as far as we know, to be smoked or snorted in any way. Various extracts have been experimented via injection into the blood, but this is not common and seems only useful in scientific studies. Turbina corymbosa, as with other morning glory species (Ipomoea sp. and Argyreia nervosa), are taken orally. Seeds are the only known part to be used. Crushing the seeds would appear to be the best route, rather than whole seeds.

2.3 The experience: Back to top

Many people who have taken this plant compare it to a more mild, perhaps euphoric, experience when compared to the other psychoactive morning glories. One thing that seems quite consistent is there is very little nausea related to consuming Turbina corymbosa seeds. This is often the biggest complaint with The psychoactive Ipomoea sp. and Argyreia nervosa.

Other people have likened the LSA experience to that of LSD, which seems, at least to us, a little exaggerated. But there are many parallels. It should be noted that some people report a more visionary experience while others experience a more euphoric and/or "mental trip".

To summarize what seems to be common with psychedelic Ololiuqui experience: Little to no nausea, enhanced colours (bright, more intensified), sometimes mild vision distortions (some report hallucinations), an uplifting euphoric state, body warming (sometimes a "numbing" feeling), the sensations of being light or heavy, muscle cramps (more noticeably in the leg region).

2.4 Storing seeds for future use : Back to top

Turbina corymbosa seeds store well when the goal is cultivation. Simply dry the seeds and store them in a cool, dark and dry place. They will last many years like this.

When using them as an entheogen, the story gets a little fuzzy. There seems to be great debate on whether the seeds should be fresh or not when used in this manner. Some argue that only a dozen or seeds, when fresh, are needed to reach psychactive effects. We have found, through human bioassay, that age does not seem to play as big a role as people seem to assume.

I can think of 2 possible reasons for the theory of fresh seeds. The first being that many publications state low doses of seeds used traditionall (ie. the book: Plants of the gods). More on that a little later. The other reason that seems logical is that when teh ergolines, such as LSA, are extracted, they are said to be quite sensitive to things like light and destroy rather easily/quickly.

It has been experimented with using old vs fresh seeds via human bioassay. generally 3 batches were to be used a month or more apart. 1 batch was old seed of a given age (1-6 years depending on batch), second was fresh (1-3 days) and dried, and the third batch was fresh and not dried (right off the plant). Results seemed to be more or less teh same as each other with 100-150 being a standard starting point of feeling effects. The highest dose was 270 fresh (right off the plant) seeds ground up held in mouth like a quid for 30 mins, then drunk with some water (and a little soda for the taste). This was teh only time sever upset was noticed, and for about 2.5-3 hours vomiting and severe stomach pain was apparant, it was also noted that teh effects on vision were more distorted, and teh "mental" side of the experience was far more intense. Due to the incredible discomfort and sickness experienced from this dose, nothing over 200 was attempted again, and no nausea was reported any other time.

2.5 Traditional doses vs modern day dose : Back to top

In todays modern societies, and to be quite frank: where people are looking for things to get high with, instead of trying to better ones self or learn of some information for some purpose, which is generally how many entheogens are taken in a traditional sense. We see much increased doses being needed. Now there are a few thoughts that come to mind when this happens, one would be the differnece between the physical bodies of the people using them; in this case Mexicans and other nationalities such as Anglo european descent, Asian descent and/or African descent. We are unaware of any studies on this with these plants, so we will not speculate any further on that point.

As mentioned above, there are sources, fairly reliable ones at that (like R. E. Schultes), that write about relatively small amounts of seeds (for example 13 seeds). Many people now a days are reporting larger doses are needed, upwards of 100-200 seeds. 13 vs 200 is a very variable gap! Now it could be said setting has a large role in this, and maybe even perhaps a bit of placebo in the beliefs of the peope who traditionally use this plant which new comers of different regions won't have. I think this point needs to be at least considered with most all entheogenic plants.

It is often agreed by people who have taken these seeds that Ololiuqui is a more subtle experience than other psychedelics, even compared to other morning glories that have similar ergolines. So one may be expecting too much from teh get go, especially if they have already experienced something like Argyreia nervosa, which seems to be far more hallucinogenic (visual). Ololiuqui would appear to be more of a mellow, contemplative entheogen that is perhaps less visual but more aimed at meditation & inner reflection. Traditionally these are taken in the dark, alone, which seems to imply it has this sort of self reflection quality.

Assuming for a moment that there is no difference in the human aspect of the entheogen, either physically or mentally, perhaps we can look to the plant itself. It has been discovered that the alkaloids believed to be the active psychoactive ingredients in teh seeds of these plants are actually formed in a fungus, nto unlike that of the Claviceps sp. fungi that infests grasses which is the source of LSD (Ergot). It has been found on certain species of Morning glories, Turbina corymbosa is one of them, that the fungi tend to grow on the leaves of the plants. It is believed that the ergoline alkaloids are synthesized there on the leaves, and somehow translocated to teh seeds of the plant. we will nto go into this in great detail on this page, as it is a very large adn fascinating topic desserving of its own page. BUt what i want to take note of here is that plants that did not have this fungal "infection" also did not contain any ergolines in the seeds of the plants; which raises all sorts of questions.

If we are to assume that the fungi are directly responsible for the plants accumulation of ergoline alkaloids, it would seem that potency of eeds could be quite variable. It may be that in the palces in MExico Turbina corymbosa is grown has favourable conditions for the fungi to grow, and in other regions of the world Ololiuqui is grown (Asia, Europe, North & South America and Australia) may or may not have as favourable conditions for the fungi, even though the plant grows perfectly fine. One last pooint on this fungal "buddy" is that it is said to be seed transmitted, and that tissue culture, and innoculation of plants failed repeatedly, making it not culturable (yet). Perhaps, finding the secrets to this fungi's lifestyle could unlock the door to stnadardized mornign glory doses that are more or less consistant, or at least moreso than 13 to 200 seeds.

3. Turbina corymbosa Toxicity: Back to top

4. Turbina corymbosa chemistry: Back to top

Please note: Some chemicals may not be listed and some may or may not be toxic. Do not consume plants based on this table, it only gives a general idea of *some* of the chemicals this plant contains.

5. Turbina corymbosa experiments: Back to top

5.1 Fresh vs. Old Seed: Back to top

There has been mention numerous places that fresh seeds must be used and traditionally fresh seed is employed. I am only guessing, but it seems logical that if the local Mexican aboriginals had these plants growing everywhere, there would be very little need to store them long periods, and fresh supply would be easy enough.

In recent years, seed storage and the like has been researched more and more (generally for cultivation purposes) and the need to store seeds seemingly more important. So this question comes up a lot with all sorts of plants, including Turbina corybosa.

In short, freshness does not seem to hugely affect potency of seeds or germination rates. With seeds 4-5 years old, and all times less than that, seeds have proven to be psychoactive at similar doses to fresh seeds (1-200 days old). These were taken by people at 120-150 seeds per experience and no difference was noted between the fresh or old seeds. Germination of seeds that were 7 years old had 70% germination rate. Another seed test of 5 year old seeds had a 83% germination rate. When dried and stored in an air tight place that is dark, dry and cool, it would seem reasonable to assume these seeds could last quite a long time.

5 Year old seeds.

1-10 day old seeds.

5.2 Seed Quality & Colour: Back to top

Anyone who has grown this plant will no doubt know that sometimes, especially if wet/humid, many seeds will come out soft and/or a dark brown colour. Many seed companies and ethnobotanical resellers sell them mixed and don¡¦t seem to pay any attention to this, perhaps it makes no difference. What we would like to find out is if it does make a difference. Currently there are 2 small basic studies under way. 1 is testing the seed germination rate and viability in comparison to apparently healthy seeds (side by side). The second is a potency test, testing the seeds form the same batch but separating the darker brown from the "normal" looking seeds. Results will be posted here when available.

"Good quality" seeds.

Dark brown seeds.

Results for Germinating tests of the 2 seed "types"

These seeds were sown in 2 soil types, 1 was pure coco powder (sifted coco coir), the other was a very heavy soil from outside. The soil types didnt seem to matter a whole lot, but the heavier one the seedligns took longer to sprout from. All soil was moist to the point of not quite dripping when squeezed. All seeds were sown 1cm deep, and placed in 27-33C temps.

Results below show germinated/Total sown. For example 10/20 means 20 were sown and only 10 germinated.

Opinion: I think this is probably due to fungal infection. I notice a lot of the brown seeds are in shaded/wet clusters and many are just liquid (rotten). I am *thinking* that many of these seeds are actually dead from the rot.

6. Turbina corymbosa Life Cycle & Photo Guide: Back to top

6.1. Turbina corymbosa seed and germination
The seeds may be scarified or soaked, or just planted as is. All methods work well, soaking and nicking work faster. Once seeds are planted, they should germinate within a week, maybe 1-4 weeks.
6.2. Turbina corymbosa Seedlings
The first set of leaves will not look normal and should be sort of U shaped. After this the true leaves start growing, which are more heart or spade shaped.
6.3. Turbina corymbosa stall stage
Quite often, especially if in pots and/or not supported, Ololiuqui seedlings will appear to stop or grow very slow for a little bit. This is probably due to 2 main reasons. 1, it now already has enough leaves to gather enough energy to start building up its root mass. 2, they need something to climb, without a support they grow as a slow ground cover and will never show their true morning glory ferocity.
6.4. Turbina corymbosa Stretch phase
Once they have a good strong root system and something to climb up, they enter the stretch phase. This is really quite amazing, especially when plants are planted in the ground with unlimited root space. Plants can easily grow 10cm+ a day once established. This stage in Ololiuqui's life is much like puberty with humans. They just reach for the sky at an alarming rate! This is a good time to add compost/manure/fertilizers etc. During this time, the plants may seem rather pathetic and skinny. They are more concerned about reaching the top and covering the canopy (where the good light is) at this stage, so they are mostly stem, and very little leaf.
6.5. Turbina corymbosa Filling Out
Once they have stretched a bunch and have their good spots picked out (the stretch phase will *never* end with this plant) they start to grow many leaves, filling any gaps that might catch stray rays from the sun. Leaves may reach 20cm in width on healthy established plants, but 10cm is the norm. This step is important for the flowering season which will come.
6.6. Turbina corymbosa Budding
Hopefully the plant has a huge root mass, and is super bushy. Ololiuqui, at least in our climate, Flowers in late Fall (October-November) and late Winter to early Spring (February-March). The flowering season to come is quite energy intensive, so its good to have a really bushy plant with lots of healthy leaves. Fertilizing is a good idea as well. There will often be many buds all bunched together, 1-20 in most cases.
6.7. Turbina corymbosa Pre Flower
Just before the flower opens (1-7 days) the bud will grow quickly and elongated. It will also feel quite soft and frail to the touch. Colour will lighten up to a light green to yellow and white when the flower is opening.
6.8. Turbina corymbosa Flowering
When they start to open, they pretty much explode with flowers, albeit in slow motion. Ololiuqui plants can have many hundreds, or thousands in large plants, of flowers at once which can be quite amazing. There is no overpowering scent, and the flowers are admittedly only white, however they are amazingly beautiful none the less!
6.9. Turbina corymbosa Pollinating the Flowers
The usual garden workers take the credit for this process. Bees, butterflies, ants etc all take their turns. The flowers are often open at night which could possible lead to other pollinators such as bats and moths.
6.10. Turbina corymbosa Flower Die Back
When the pollination process is done and the flowers have been open for a few days (2-9) they start to close up. They remain closed and the corolla (petals) begin to die/go brown.
6.11. Turbina corymbosa Ovary Swelling (seed production)
When the corolla has died back it often hands off the ovary (fruit/seed) by the style (the connecting tissue that connects the ovary to the pollen receptive stigma). Over time the ovary will swell larger and larger, this often takes a month give or take. We also noticed that they tend to try and ripen the seeds at roughly the same start time.
6.12. Turbina corymbosa Ovary Turning Brown
You know it is getting close to harvest time when the ovary starts turning brown. Don¡¦t pick it yet, but watch it. It should feel healthy and hard at this point.
6.13. Turbina corymbosa Harvest Time!
When the ovary (seed pod) is completely brown, and feels brittle to the touch, it is harvest time. The sepals will go straight out (usually has 4) and the seed pod will stick out the middle, almost looking star like. To harvest the seed, take the brown papery like shell off, and the seed will be immediately under it. You can also pinch the outer end (where the style connects) and the seed will come shooting out the other side.

7. References: Back to top

Dart, Richard C. Medical Toxicology. (2003)

Halpern, John H. Hallucinogens and dissociative agents naturally growing in the United States. (2004)

Rafinesque. Flora Telluriana. (1836)

Schultes, Richard Evans.Antiquity of the Use of New World Hallucinogens. (1979)

Wiart, Christophe. Ethnopharmacology of Medicinal Plants Asia and the Pacific (2006)

Shulgin, Alexander and Ann. Tryptamines I Have Known And Loved: The Chemistry Continues

Mehling, Randi. Hallucinogens: Drugs The Straight Facts

10=0.37

8. Related Pages: Back to top

Turbina corymbosa Plant Guide A general guide to the growing/culture of these plants

Hallucinogenic Plants

Psychedelic Plants